From: "Michael A. Terrell"
Subject: Re: American vs foreign electrical parts and installations
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 22:52:22 -0400
Organization: I'm trying!
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References: <3D874DAA.F82953BD@mfi.net> <3D88C29C.BFD4E2F5@mfi.net> <3D891FBC.AFC81DB3@webaccess.net>
Chuck Simmons wrote:
> "Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
> > Andrew Gabriel wrote:
> > >
> > > In article ,
> > > Daniel Haude writes:
> > > > In Germany (don't know about the rest of Europe) there's no house that
> > > > DOESN't have 400V 3p at least into the basement and often into the
> > > > individual flats.
> > >
> > > I don't know about Germany specifically, but in a number of
> > > EU countries, there is a single phase limit, above which you
> > > will need to switch to 3-phase supply. In the UK, this is 100A,
> > > so if you need more than 100A service, you will normally have
> > > to go 3-phase, but this is not common as 100A is normally
> > > enough. In some other EU countries, this is as low as 25A,
> > > in which case most houses will have 3-phase.
> > >
> > > In pretty much all of Europe, 3-phase is run in the street
> > > (except for sparse rural areas), so it isn't difficult to
> > > supply. What I notice in the US is that you don't normally
> > > get more than 1 phase run in a street (another in a different
> > > street, etc), which would make 3-phase supply to a house much
> > > harder (not to mention that the US can't do neighbourhood
> > > distribution at 120V anyway so poles are dotted with tin can
> > > transformers, whereas neighbourhood distribution at the direct
> > > 230/400V mains is the norm in the EU).
> > >
> > > --
> > > Andrew Gabriel
> > You have the advantage of lower voltage drops by using a single
> > transformer (AKA: Pole Pig) for a small group of homes. If one fails it
> > only affects the houses on a single transformer. Some homes do have
> > three phase run past them. It depends on when the local distribution
> > system was built, or last upgraded. Since you can buy almost any piece
> > of equipment you need for 120 or 240 volt operation.
> > Industrial equipment usually would not be used in a residence, unless
> > it is very quiet, and the operation doesn't require a permit from the
> > EPA.
> As far as I know, there is no EPA permit required for machine tools. A
> friend of mine has a small home machine shop with a 15HP CNC mill, a 30
> inch swing gear head lathe (20 HP), a German made toolroom vertical mill
> (10 HP), a 12 inch swing Hardinge dovetail bed lathe (5 HP) and typical
> other stuff such as drill presses, saws, welders some of them 3 phase.
> He can't get 3 phase service economically so he uses small phase
> converters for everything below 10 HP and a large rotary phase converter
> for the big tools (the rotary phase converter handles starting surges
> that the smaller phase converter boxes can't handle). It is hard to tell
> that the machines run from a single phase service since the phase
> converters work well enough that you can throw the reversing switch on a
> machine and the spindle reverses immediatly. Even the large lathe with a
> heavy chuck and work on the spindle.
> I'm not sure how the EPA could develop any interest in such a tiny
> machine shop for private use. In fact, OSHA is out of the picture as
> well because the shop is a home shop without employees.
> ... The times have been,
> That, when the brains were out,
> the man would die. ... Macbeth
> Chuck Simmons email@example.com
Its not the tools, its any chemicals used with the tools, or to clean
up afterwards. I had trouble about eight years ago getting a permit to
open a used computer store out of a small warehouse. The occupancy
permit had to be signed off by the local EPA office. They refused, at
first because I wanted to "Refurbish them on site", and they didn't
believe I wasn't using all kinds of dangerous chemicals to clean them
Finally, I convinced them that all I used was a little household
ammonia to clean the cases, and a little car wax to make them look nice
The next question was "How do you dispose of the used cleaner?"
I almost lost it and told them off, but I calmly explained: You
spray a fine mist on the case, wipe it down with a couple paper towels,
and throw them in the trash, just like when you clean your windows with
Windex. Then you apply a little liquid car wax and buff it out with a
few more towels, and throw them away, just like when you wax your car.
I finally got it, with a warning that they could pull it at any time,
and without warning if the even suspected I was doing anything they
The EPA thinks they have the right to be in all your business. They
want old CRTs recycled by returning them to a CRT factory, under
vacuum. That requires shipping it in the TV or monitor case in a padded
An old fart since August 5th, 2002!
Michael A. Terrell
Check out my web site and tell me what you think.
I'm up to 160 pages, and still working on it.