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Subject: Re: micro trainer? please help?
References: <firstname.lastname@example.org> <3D9E5B3B.AD78ECD1@webaccess.net> <email@example.com> <3D9EEFA2.BD2678A0@webaccess.net>
Organization: The Armory
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test69 (20 September 1998)
From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Richard Steven Walz)
Date: 05 Oct 2002 21:46:46 GMT
In article <3D9EEFA2.BD2678A0@webaccess.net>,
Chuck Simmons wrote:
>Richard Steven Walz wrote:
>> In article <3D9E5B3B.AD78ECD1@webaccess.net>,
>> Chuck Simmons wrote:
>> >Richard Steven Walz wrote:
>> >> In article <email@example.com>,
>> >> Al Borowski wrote:
>> >> >Depends. Do you want to get into 8051's?
>> >> ----------------------
>> >> That's an 8085 NOT an 8051. Totally different, it shares a common
>> >> instruction set with the Z80 instructon subset used for the CP/M
>> >> operating system.
>> >My God! People don't remember that CP/M was originally written for 8080!
>> >Z80 was an 8080 clone that came out a year or so later with a double set
>> >of registers and a few more instructions.
>> Yeahbut, the 8080 was a piece of shit that needed two or three other chips
>> to constitute a complete processor, and it required three different
>> voltage supplies. The 8085 was the culmination of the Intel design in
>> that instruction set, and then Zilog came out with the Z80 to compete with
>> the 8085! With the team that left to form Zilog, both the Z80 and the 8085
>> were nearly designed by the same bunch of guys, just with different
>> architectural philosophies regarding address multiplexing on a processor.
>When the 8080 came out, everybody had to have substrate bias for NMOS. A
>later inovation was to build the substrate bias supply on the NMOS chip
>as a switchmode charge pump type supply. CMOS came along in the early
>1970s and required no substrate bias but it was very slow. Anyway, the
>8080 was NMOS prior to moving the substrate bias supply on chip. I think
>the original Z80 was also NMOS. I can't remember the process used for
>the original 8085 but it may have been HMOS. Of course everything went
>nuts with the 8086, Z8000 and 68000 all roughly in 1980. The Z8000 had
>little success. The 8086 was destined for the IBM PC and the 68000, the
>top performer of the pack, went into Apple Lisa and Sun workstations.
>However, to me, the selection of a trainer can be an architecture
>related thing. The 8085 is a von Neumann architecture. The von Neumann
>architecture is by far the most important because it is the architecture
>found in all high end processors I know about. The PIC, the AVR, the TI
>DSPs are all Harvard architecture setting them apart as being niche
>market devices. So the question is what the trainer is supposed to train
>a person. A von Neumann architecture trainer prepares a student for main
>stream computing as we know it today. The Harvard architecture is really
>out of the main stream and typically lives in the embedded controller
>niche. There are real differences in programming the two architectures.
>I sort of grew up with von Neumann architecture and feel like I am
>wearing a straight jacket when I have to deal with a Harvard machine.
Yup. Me too, but they're cheap and small, and fast. I wish someone would
turn modern design toward that kind of simple design, and make a 40-pin
Z80 with 64KB to 1MB onboard that would do 1Ghz or such and 3 dedicated
I/O ports, counter/timer, and DART. Just add paging registers and keep
the 8-bit data byte.
-Steve Walz firstname.lastname@example.org ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public
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