From: email@example.com (The little lost angel)
Subject: Re: Problems with Electronics Workbench - timestep errors
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 03:09:02 GMT
Organization: Yes please, I'm quite disorganized & lost at the moment
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NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 03:07:46 +0000 (UTC)
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On Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:20:51 +0100, "Kevin Aylward"
>> We do not understand much of all the terms and settings you talk about
>> above, and there is no need to know.
>Yes you do, if you expect to do real electronics.
Eventually yes, but for starters there is no need.
Take an example of using the PC. Most of us do NOT know how
the processor works, how RAM works, how hard disks work or how any of
the myriad components or software affect our work. But most of us can
learn how to use it to get the expected result more or less.
From there, being unsatisfied, we go on to probe deeper, find
out more about the innards. That's the natural progression.
If the PC requires the user to understand CMOS technology, how
FLASH ROM works, how RAM works, the parameters of a CPU, the cache
architecture, the bus frequency and ratio, the number of pins for each
connector, the parameters of the chipset etc etc etc before they can
use it for even the most simple thing... I am sure even if the PC was
the greatest and most powerful computer type in the world, the
acceptance level would be very low.
The same thing is happening for Linux. Sure it's a good,
powerful and stable OS. But the main complaint against it for new
users is the need to wade through countless conf files just to set up
something as basic as an dial up connection.
So nowadays they feature easy to use GUI even for
installation. On some distributors, a newbie could install and boot
into X without ever seeing the console. But it doesn't mean the
powerful console isn't there or can't be used.
>To understand electronics *at all* you *must* learn what these terms
>mean. These particular terms are *so* basic, that if you don't want to
>learn them, you should give up electronics. I mean it. Its that simple.
>Why? see below.
I want to learn, I hope to be able to do more complex stuff
eventually, nevermind if I have any need to do so, it's a
But I'd probably never get to there if I didn't have a easy to
use Spice program to let me get my feet wet. I'm pretty sure there are
countless of folks out there who eventually didn't bother and just did
things without simulating.
>Jesus wept dude. I agree, that things need to be simple. However, they
>can not be so simple that you don't know what you are doing at all.
>Look, I can give ABC instructions for you to build an oscillator,
>however, building it would mean nothing. It would not show that you
>understood *anything* at all about electronics.
True, IF the person stops at building the oscillator, yes, he
wouldn't understand a thing. but if that's all the person would ever
do, he would never go any further in using SuperSpice or any of the
hard to use Spice programs.
If the person is well and truly interested, he builds the
oscillator, it works. Then he will experiment with this and that to
see what are the effects. Then he looks up information on particular
parts and why they did what they did. Plays around with it a bit more
and eventually understands most of what involves in a oscillator.
But if he doesn't get to complete the first oscillator, he
might never get to the final understanding.
>Sure, you can connect up signal generators and scopes and see all the
>little bitty pretty pictures, if that makes you happy, but you wont be
Maybe not at first, but eventually, I'll take apart those
pretty pictures to see why they appear the way they do. Can't do that
when I can't figure out the myriad mysterious parameters in the very
first place to get any sort of graph that I recognize.
You're a very smart person (honestly, stupid folk ain't going
to come up with a program like Superspice by themselves) but for most
of us mundane humans, we need stepping stones. A simple graphical
oscilloscope or meters is that stepping stone to higher understanding.
When we reach a point where the standard settings on the
oscilloscope doesn't satisfy our need, you can be pretty sure we will
be digging into all those parameters and eventually abandoning the
graphical o-scope for the straight graph.
L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work.
If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me :)