Reply-To: "fred bartoli"
From: "fred bartoli"
References: <email@example.com> <firstname.lastname@example.org> <email@example.com> <12j4LzC+fEp9EwgG@jmwa.demon.co.uk> <firstname.lastname@example.org> <699p9.8961$QY.email@example.com> <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Subject: Re: Problems with Electronics Workbench - timestep errors
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:52:36 +0200
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Kevin Aylward a écrit dans le message :
> "fred bartoli" wrote in message
> > Kevin Aylward a écrit dans le message :
> > 699p9.8961$QY.email@example.com...
> > >
> > >
> > > "Roger Johansson" wrote in message
> > > news:firstname.lastname@example.org...
> > > > "Kevin Aylward" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Sure, you can connect up signal generators and scopes and see all
> > > > >little bitty pretty pictures, if that makes you happy, but you
> > > be
> > Coming late in this thread to support you Kevin (not meaning that you
> Thanks. I don't often get support on this.
> > Have read all the comments above and in the other posts and I 2000%
> > agree with you and *must* say to little lost angel and Roger that they
> > wrong.
> > Sticking with scopes... only show reluctance to change one's way of
> > and habits. Designing serious analog stuff require you to do this very
> > often. Once you'll changed to use
> > I also "tried" EWB one or two years ago, and decided as soon as
> > that it's just eligible for the trash can.
> > Setting up a schematic is 10 times too long. The models library is
> > ridiculously low quality, and the *necessary* features for serious
> work are
> > lacking, at the "benefits" of useless scopes, meters and so on. For me
> > a strictly marketing positionning from a looser firm that *can't*
> manage to
> > build a good enough simulator for the professional market and then try
> > make money on credulous amateurs. I've seen a lot in the spice
> > domain but I must admit that EWB is the worst I've ever seen.
> > To be honest in comparing both, I've just downloaded SS and gave it a
> try :
> > 3 min for download
> > 1 min for installation
> > 2 min to play with the menus, toolbars, library structure, options...
> to get
> > a quick feeling of how SS is designed...
> I gather you ran a few examples to see how the "magic" works.
Sorry for my "poor" english : gather = understand/guess in this case ???
In fact it's even better for you :
when I take hands on some piece of anything, my first reaction (test) is to
try to use it without any manual, any examples, and so on... probably some
kind of laziness.
So, no, I didn't ran any examples. Just started from scratch to really test
how intuitive the interface is. Absolutely no complaint. ( in fact just the
"OP" button for program option that confused me with operating point for a
second or two. Should probably be "PO", like the "SO" one).
> > then 2 min to setup a SK LP filter with a 2N3904 buffer, simulate its
> > transfer function, extract the poles and zeros, then build an
> > laplace block and so on.
> I have not done a pole-zero graph yet, principle because I personally
> have never found a use for one.
So do I.
> There is a set of Laplace filter models already in the
> \SuperSpice\system folder, but they are not loaded by default, there are
> also other vendors models files that are also not loaded by default.
> Just drag and drop will load them in.
That's what I did.
I wasn't asking for pole-zero plots, but wanted to show that in seconds,
without prior handling of SS, I could build an equivalent function transfert
block of a filter accurate to a fraction of percent.
This just to explain that what I (used to use spice SW) can do in seconds
without prior knowledge of the SS interface, an amateur that really want can
do this in minutes (maybe a bit longer the firsts times). That shouldn't
frighten them for the interested ones.
> > Oh, the 2n3904 model was also created in a snap with parameters from
> my own
> > library, not using Kevin's ones, as I wanted to compare the results
> from the
> > one I'm used to.
> > Definitely simple to use and intuitive. I also reckon that it's a nice
> > from a single man that also simulate 40hours a day. Maybe you wrote SS
> > during the other 7 days of the week ?
> By and large, it was all done whilst I had a day job. Mostly, using
> Cadence Analogue Artist doing analogue i.c. design. 600+ files, around
> 100k active lines, difficult to count, a few files have 20k lines
> setting up various data structures.
> And of course, software is only a hobby of mine:-)
> > FYI, I've noticed some easy to implement small features that could
> > schematics capture speed, though I did play with SS only for something
> > 30min, so I probably don't have all the good reflexes with SS. If
> > interested I could more thoroughly "review" it and give you some
> > (from someone that only does simulation 8 hours a day).
> I'm always open to feedback. I just put in page borders and a title
> block because I as being nagged by a user.However, I like to put in real
> key features rather then fluff. I do need to have a single right mouse
> click to quick change the waveform colour, some of the defaults are too
Ok for the "review". Just let me some time for doing real work with it.
My point will just be about the productivity side of SS (and bug report of
course, if any).
> > To little lost angel and Roger, again SS is a much more valuable
> > than EWB for amateurs (and it's free for small sized projects)
> provided that
> > you have the willing to (only slightly) change your way of thinking.
> Indeed. As I noted, the 30 top level limit on a second lower level limit
> of 20 per schematic is 600 components!. Real pros, imo, design
> schematics object orientated and hierarchically. E.g. A PLL might be a
> current pump, a phase detector, a bias block, a divider block, a loop
> filter block etc.
> > will learn much more this way, but perhaps it's not your point after
> Ahhhh at last some sense!
> Kevin Aylward
> SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
> Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
> Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.