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From: firstname.lastname@example.orgUrPants (Take off UrPants to reply)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 05:36:40 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: household electrical failiure
>You are not a clever generalist. It gives me a lot of pain to say this,
>since it is somewhat insulting. There are several ways to tell, but
>the two that immediately jump out are that: 1) You do not understand the
>importance of a good model.
And what model is available to me and would be suitable to this situation.
Based on the available data I figured out that I had an open neutral and
patched, Things are now working, the question in my mind is are they working
safely. The model i am working with is the annex itself, and I am
systematically exploring and modifying aspects of the model. Sorry, that's all
I have to work with.
2) You cannot sense your "blind spots".
That is true of many blind spots and many people. That is why I am here. That
is why I have said from the begining that I am not an expert or even
experience. That is why I am listening to everything that everyone says except
for stuff like "I judge you to be too ignorant, just give up and hire a
>work with a lot of generalists, and they look at things in strange ways
>and from all kinds of different positions, but they tend to have several
>common approaches. This is necessary, since they work at a severe
>handicap as compared to specialists. In summary, I do not intend to be
>insulting. I am just pointing out some missing things.
>Here is how to address them (constructive portion of post). To hone
>your perception of the model, you need to connect general knowledge
>with specific knowledge. Get a copy of the NEC and read through it.
>As you read through it, surf the web a bit and look at people's comments
>on the code. Figure out why the code was written the way it was. There
>is a reason for everything. Note that not every article was written
>to promote safety. Some were in response to industry pressure, and
>actually make things less safe. For example, look at permissible
>leakage for kitchen appliances from hot to ground in 220V circuits. And
>look at article 625. See if you can spot the contradictions and the
>presence of industry's hand. The code may be flawed, but if you can
>put it on your side, there will be a lot less flaming arrows being
>hurled in your direction.
This is good advice. Anyone know where a copy of the NEC is on the web? Can you
point me to the part of the NEC that is more relevant to my problem.
>Second, you need to address your blind spots. Look at the NEC and try
>to understand why it forbids live wires dead ending between walls. This
>is not a dangerous situation in itself. But, it leads to dangerous
>situations, especially if you see a dead end as what it truly is, a
I can think of some. If there is a leak in the wall there could be a short. The
wire could shift and contact a ground or conductor.
There are not many books that give good information on
>fixing old and possible misrouted wiring. But there are lots of good
>books on installing wiring. What use are these to you, you may ask?
>They provide a clue to dealing with the blind spots. Here is how to
>do it. De-energize all existing wiring. Treat it as if it were
>energized. Buy a fox and hound.
What is the technical name for a "fox and hound"?
Check for power before attaching,
>then trace out that section of wire. Remove it wherever practical.
>Repeat until all of the wiring has been extracted, or stubs are
>accounted for *on both ends.* You guessed what comes next. Rewire
>the annex. No fair reusing the old wiring. You will probably need
>an inspection, but your wiring (if you are indeed a clever generalist
>and you follwed a good book with annotations from the code) will pass
>with flying colors.
>You may not like these suggestions since a rewire over existing
>panelling and drywall is time-consuming and expensive. But, you have
>already neglected hazards
WHAT DID I IGNORE? HONESTLY, the only thing I ignored was the suggestion to
give up and get an electrician, you folks just are not being fair!
that were pointed out to you by later
>posts, with sorrowful loss of credibility coming along with it.
>Remember, stupidity and arrogance are very different things, but
>their results are surprisingly similar.
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