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From: email@example.com (N. Thornton)
Subject: Re: TCPA (Trusted Computing Platform Alliance) and future PC use for engineering
Date: 5 Nov 2002 06:58:30 -0800
References: <3DC58036.335D721E@erckert-ibe.de> <3DC59C6F.firstname.lastname@example.org> <email@example.com> <firstname.lastname@example.org>
NNTP-Posting-Date: 5 Nov 2002 14:58:30 GMT
email@example.com (The little lost angel) wrote in message news:<firstname.lastname@example.org>...
> On 4 Nov 2002 07:35:05 -0800, email@example.com (N. Thornton) wrote:
> >I understand one of the ramifications of pratadium is that if you have
> >a hardware problem, you will be unable to recover any data whatever
> >off your HDD. Put the HDD in any other machine and it simply wont be
> >possible to recover anything off it. Who would choose that?
> Well, data recovery businesses would :)
Will they be able to though?
> They just need a machine that ignores the DRM/TCPA/Paladium thing and
> a software tool that mods the DRM signature for everything that's
> recovered... I expect that particular tool to be widely available from
> some Russian site within weeks (if not days) of Paladium becoming
> anything near mass acceptance.
But businesses wouldn't touch that, normally. And businesses are the
main puter buyers.
And home users tend to buy the old business machines, complete with
OS. Hence the problem. However much people look down on prat machines,
low cost will mean a lot will still get bought by home users.
> >The problem is, since it looks like Intel will play ball, many could
> >end up buying pratadium without understanding what they're buying,
> >thus it could become common. Then various major business software
> >packages will require pratadium to work, then all new MS OSes wil be
> >pratadium only... I can easily see a day when pratadium could take
> That is true, but AMD appears to be adopting the approach of
> TCPA as an option switchable by the user. So we would have a hardware
> platform that doesn't forces the user to use TCPA, then it is only a
> simple step to having software that ignores or flout TCPA or bypasses
> the OS's TCPA. Or simply we see more people hopping onto the Linux
> Who knows, Paladium might backfire on MS so badly by doing the
> one thing they least wanted... drive folks towards Linux.
Yup, its bound to, but in a sense it doesn't matter. If they get one
more round of upgrades out of it, and lose even as much as 10% of the
customer base, they're still ahead financially. I hope it would lose
them more, but presumably they don't think it will, and I think
they're probably right. People have bought and signed the most
outrageous crap so far, for the simple reason we don't have good
> Already it's
> been observed that many corporates customers have slammed the brakes
> on using XP and taking Linux into serious consideration due to the
> licensing scheme MS has come up with.
> >If this happens I think it would do an immense amount of damage to the
> >whole computer thing. Imagine the problems that result when people
> >start looking for alternatives to a closed pratadium PC market. The
> >compatibility issues that dogged the puter industry in the 80s will be
> >back, and will create all hell.
> Actually it wouldn't be too bad a thing. Sure we have a lot of
> standardized stuff... but it also means competition is being reduced
> as the smaller players get shoved out the door by established dominant
> standards player. With a splintering, new players can come in and we
> may see actual improvements vs
> now-you-see-clippy-now-you-don't-see-clippy type of "improved
Well, look at Linux. It keeps getting better, but it really lags
behind Windows in significant ways. That's the result of relatively
small scale efforts. The same would happen with splintered PC OSes,
we'd see less progress, since every conceptual move forward has to be
duplicated however many times, among numerous non compatible systems.
It'd be a real mess.
I don't like monopoly, but I'm not too sure about 20-opoly either. It
certainly didn't work well in the 80s. The very reason for the PC's
success is its an open thing. A closed PC system could be made far
more efficient, but openness / compatibility really is king.
> >There are real concerns about XP too, yet its uptake has been almost
> >universal. Very few new puters are shipped with older OSes now.
> It's not whether people have a choice... when MS controls the
Perhaps you'd explain that.
> Plus, it can be difficult to convince some folks that W2010 is not
> better than W2005 (it's got a bigger number, surely it's better!).
Exactly. I think most people bought Me and XP in ignorance, so I would
expect to see the same pattern with pratadium. Ignorance rules.
> Though news of XP's problems have apparently been quite well known
> such that some folks I never expect to balk at buying a new OS have
> expressed their concerns when shopping for new computers.
Yep, yet almost everyone is still buying it nonetheless. People will
put up with anything if its that or nothing. Businesses simply can't
do without computers.
I think MS are putting one more nail in their coffin. When some decent
alternative does come along, MS will take a major financial kicking.
Almost no-one likes MS now, every new OS they lose more and more trust
But sadly it doesn't matter, in the sense that they have made off with
the most outrageous amounts of money already. I'm no communist, but I
think there comes a time when its just taking the piss. After all, how
many lives could just half of MS's money save? Many think that for one
person to be worth over a billion is a bit obscene, especially someone
as sociopathic as Bill.
I think if MS had decided to make all their old OSes free for anyone
to use, they'd sell 33% less, but they'd maintain a reasonable level
of public goodwill, and be able to carry on and on. I honestly don't
think many people are going to forgive MS once someone else comes
along. That company will be totally rejected, and have no further
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