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From: John Woodgate
Subject: Re: NEED A TRANSFORMER - WE MANUFACTURER
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 16:06:01 +0000
Organization: JMWA Electronics Consultancy
Reply-To: John Woodgate
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 17:38:15 +0000 (UTC)
X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 4.01 <5Z8C9wtxbnpWyFnyfFzqmVF739>
I read in sci.electronics.design that john jardine
wrote (in <871568ec.0211060642.57cad5d8@pos
ting.google.com>) about 'NEED A TRANSFORMER - WE MANUFACTURER', on Wed,
6 Nov 2002:
>John Woodgate wrote in message news:9EwfW@jmwa.demon.co.uk>...
>> This, and similar anecdotes in this thread, indicates to me that there
>> is a large number of poorly-trained assessors at loose. There is nothing
>> in ISO 9000 that says that 'Common sense is repealed'.
>Yes but! ... there in nothing in ISO 9000 that actually says anything
>at all. It can be read as meaning all things to all men and is a
>wonderful example of the Egyptolygists mastery of the the English
I asked my tame ISO 9000 person to respond to the previous business
about not changing something that was proved inadequate. His response
It's the old chestnuts, and the more they get roasted, the more brittle
These sorts of comments were rife with ISO9001:1994 and its predecessors
(and there is some truth in them for some of the quality management
systems (qms) that were implemented then), but its time these guys woke
up to the new millennium.
ISO9001:2000 makes it clear that a qms must be designed to be effective
at satisfying customers.
Compliance with ISO9001 (which may be why an audit is being conducted)
is dependent on the organisation being able to demonstrate that it IS
effective at satisfying customers.
Any auditor who is looking only for the organisation to have documented
what it does and to be doing what it documented, even if it means
producing crap, is not competent at assessing organisations against
ISO9001:2000. Unless, of course, it can be demonstrated that what the
customers really want IS crap. :)
Taking the example cited, presumably a software design organisation, the
dialogue might have gone....
Me: I need to change this module because the customer is going to be
disappointed with the product if we deliver as it exists at the moment.
Auditor: How and when was this communicated to the Project Manager?
[Author: the person who may be responsible for communications with the
Me: Last week. We've weighed the costs of making the changes (including
the delay, costs of regression and integration testing) and confirmed
that its less costly to our company to bear these changes than it is to
risk disappointing the customer. This change note, XYZ, was raised by
the Project Manager and lists: the actions we are taking to make the
change and re-validate the integrated software; the person who has been
given the responsibility for getting it done; when it has to be done;
and the person who is responsible for checking that the actions have
achieved the desired result.
Auditor: I've heard you describe how your quality management system has
been followed correctly, and the e-mail records of the agreement reached
between the Project Manager and the customer together with the records
of the work done so far provide me with sufficient evidence to show that
you have used your qms effectively to satisfy your customer. This part
of your organisation's activities appear to meet the requirements of
ISO9001:2000. Well done!
[I know, auditors aren't usually that pleasant. ;)]
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
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