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/iframe></center><br><br> <br><br> </center> </td></tr> </table> <center> <table> <tr> <td width="600"> <center><hr width="400"><font size="2"><b>The <a href="http://www.cyber-spy.com/">Cyber-Spy.Com</a> Usenet Archive Feeds Directly<br>From The Open And Publicly Available Newsgroup<br>Sci.Electronics.Design<br><br>This Group And Thousands Of Others Are Available<br>On Most IS NNTP News Servers On Port 119.<br><br><a href="http://www.cyber-spy.com/">Cyber-Spy.Com</a> Is NOT Responsible For Any Topic,<br>Opinions Or Content Posted To This Or Any Other<br>Newsgroup. This Web Archive Of The Newsgroup And<br>Posts Are For Informational Purposes Only.<br><br></b></font><hr width="400"></center> <center><font size="2"><pre><b> From: etsteve@yahoo.com (Steve Sousa) Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design Subject: Re: 9V bat ->2AA + switcher ? Date: 6 Dec 2002 16:24:36 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Message-ID: <e726e217.0212061624.2f988d98@posting.google.com> References: <e726e217.0212040827.245c26be@posting.google.com> <fs7uuuk117fc31ebp33oojini8fktr83df@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.129.220.215 NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Dec 2002 00:24:37 GMT Hi: I'd like to thank everyone for helping me out. It easy once you see the solution. Everyone explained the concept i needed, Mr. Vlad also mentioned one of the key issues: getting the most energy for $ in bats. I have some points i would apreciate if Mr. Kirwan could explain. (that's why i top-posted). Thanks again to the others. Now the questions: Jonathan Kirwan <jkirwan@easystreet.com> wrote in message news:<fs7uuuk117fc31ebp33oojini8fktr83df@4ax.com>... > Yes, those figures are what Energizer shows in a web page table. That's were i got them. > Type Volt | Name Rated at 25mA Est. curve at 3mA > ------------|-------------------------------------------------- > AA 1.5V | E91 2850 mA-h 3000 mA-h > AAA 1.5V | E92 1250 mA-h 1500 mA-h > 9V 9.0V | 522 600 mA-h 1110 mA-h > 0.8V per cell. (Past 6mA, the 9V alkaline runs on a different > slope and you get less total energy from it, which is why you > see such a difference in the total for the 9V, between 3mA and > 25mA draws.) Were did you get that "est. curve"? There are no capacity/load curves on the datasheets i got?? > >The load takes about 3mA. The discharge curve to .8 Volts per cell > >gives the following running times: > > > >AA 1000 h > >AAA 500 h > >P3 370 h I got those from the curves on the ds, ok. > Okay, I can also calculate those figures at 3mA, from the curves > for 3mA draws: > If you use a 9V battery and if that input is going to vary > between 9V and 4.8V while providing 7.5V on the output, you'll This was not the case i wanted to analise, the comparison should be between the case of an unregulated 9V supply, that "expires" at 7.2V Vs. some external bats plus switcher, running those bats to 0.8 V. > input current = (output volts/input volts)*output current > at 100% efficiency. or input current = (output volts/input volts)*output current *1/eff :-) > The current draw on the battery, in any of these switcher > topologies, will not be constant even with a constant load. As > the battery voltage decreases the switcher will need to pull > more current in order to maintain the 7.5V output at a constant Yes, i wanted to get an estimate by calculating the area under that constant power curve, but it would not be really representative of this case. There were no other helpfull curves. > What's the available energy? > > 9V energy = 7V * (1110mAh / 1000) * 3600 sec/h = 28 kiloJoules > AA pair = 2.2V * (3000mAh / 1000) * 3600 sec/h = 24 kiloJoules It seems ilogical that a pair of AA would have less available energy than a 9V bat, if we consider their volume...Assuming that the 9V bat is made out of six AAAA (1.5V, 625mAh) You can easily find some relationship between their rated capacities. Like Mr Bitbyter said: "A 9V battery consists of six small 1.5V cells with roughly the capacity off half a AAA", this gives us a PP3=3*AAA=1.52*AA, so 2*AA should be roughly 1.31*PP3 bat. I think it is reasonable to expect a larger mass of bats to have a larger amount of energy available?... > Now, let's factor in the battery system's internal resistance. > The internal resistance of the 9V is always more than 2 ohms, > however, rising to over 10 ohms near end of life. In the case > of an AA battery, this varies from say 0.15 ohms to an ohm or > so. Could you give me a pointer to those figures please? > So the decision is more about the complexity of the converter > and its efficiency at your load current and what you think is > important for the battery type. For example, AA's may be a > little more widely available around the world than 9V. Or the > 9V may have a less expensive connector for your needs. In this case i was hoping to reduce the expense with batteries. You can get 4 AA or AAA for the price of one PP3, so if at least the AA worked, i could get more economical running times. In any case, I never expected the 9V bat to have so much available energy, maybe because i'm used to using rechargeables, that have a much lower capacity. I still think 2*AA's must have more energy than 3*AAA's... > Hope that helps some. It does help a lot, thank you. Steve Sousa </b></pre></font><hr width="650"><a href="http://www.cyber-spy.com/electo-index.html"><font size="3">Go Back To The <a href="http://www.cyber-spy.com/">Cyber-Spy.Com</a><br>Usenet Web Archive Index Of<br>The sci.electronics.design Newsgroup</font></a><br><br></center></td><img src="http://cyber-spy.com/cgi-bin/livecntr.pl?0+1+unetsci" width="1" height="1" alt="The Cyber-Spy Toolkit - powerful internet spy software - live police scanners - usenet fbi secrets archive - newsgroup spy electronics archive - search engine spy tools - download TCST today!"> </tr> </table> </center> <center> <br><center><hr size="3"></center> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" border="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td align="left" valign="top"><small><b><i><a href="http://www.cyber-spy.com/index.html">Cyber-Spy.Com Live Resources</a></i></b></small></td> <td align="right" valign="top"><small> Copyright Alpha Omega Delta,<br> All rights reserved. </small></td> </tr> </table> <center><hr size="3"></center> <br><br> <br><br></center> </body></html>