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/iframe></center><br><br> <br><br> </center> </td></tr> </table> <center> <table> <tr> <td width="600"> <center><hr width="400"><font size="2"><b>The <a href="http://www.cyber-spy.com/">Cyber-Spy.Com</a> Usenet Archive Feeds Directly<br>From The Open And Publicly Available Newsgroup<br>Sci.Electronics.Design<br><br>This Group And Thousands Of Others Are Available<br>On Most IS NNTP News Servers On Port 119.<br><br><a href="http://www.cyber-spy.com/">Cyber-Spy.Com</a> Is NOT Responsible For Any Topic,<br>Opinions Or Content Posted To This Or Any Other<br>Newsgroup. This Web Archive Of The Newsgroup And<br>Posts Are For Informational Purposes Only.<br><br></b></font><hr width="400"></center> <center><font size="2"><pre><b> Reply-To: "Kevin Aylward" <kevin@anasoft.co.uk> From: "Kevin Aylward" <kevin@anasoft.co.uk> Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design References: <at2rep$n7e$1@sass2141.sandia.gov> <wKgJ9.25$G2.2997@newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net> <at53pd$skc$1@sass2141.sandia.gov> <aOoJ9.1324$G2.25594@newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net> <at5a94$326$1@sass2141.sandia.gov> Subject: Re: How to increase PLL order? Organization: AnaSoft X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-Inktomi-Trace: public1-pete2-5-cust33.pete.broadband.ntl.com 1039559049 1168 80.0.216.33 (10 Dec 2002 22:24:09 GMT) Message-ID: <eQtJ9.4810$zM3.114381@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:24:09 -0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.224.4 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:24:10 GMT Christopher R. Carlen wrote: > Kevin Aylward wrote: >> A frequency/phase detector is a digital logic detector, of which >> there are various implementations. In contrast to multipliers and >> ex-or type that lock on at 90 deg for the center frequency only, >> frequency/phase types always lock exactly in phase (ideally) no >> mater what the centre frequency is. > > I think that depends on what the transfer function of the VCO is. No it does not. > Of > course, we are used to Kvco/s, but for motors things go haywire. > > I am using the Z-state detector from a 4046, and it doesn't produce > zero phase error with a motor, though it most certainly does with a > normal VCO. > Then something is amiss, however, what do you mean by the Z detector? See below. > The reasons are in the control theory, at which I am not yet good > enough to explain why this happens. But I have observed it > nonetheless. A crude attempt at my explaining it would go something > like: > > The motor/VCO transfer function is wierd, so that the loop filter > transfer function is not that of a simple low pass filter with a > finite high frequency gain. Instead it is a "zero-pole" as I have > OPed. This filter doesn't integrate. Phase error is thus some > non-zero constant. > Have you actually read the data sheet? **** Phase comparator I, an exclusive OR gate, provides a digital error signal (phase comp. I Out) and maintains 90° phase shifts at the VCO center frequency. Between signal input and comparator input (both at 50% duty cycle), it may lock onto the signal input frequencies that are close to harmonics of the VCO center frequency. Phase comparator II is an edge-controlled digital memory network. It provides a digital error signal (phase comp. II Out) and lock-in signal (phase pulses) to indicate a locked condition and maintains a 0° phase shift between signal input and comparator input. ***************** If you use Phase comparator II the loop gain will force the inputs to have zero phase shift, whatever the frequency. Kevin Aylward sales@anasoft.co.uk http://www.anasoft.co.uk SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture, Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design. </b></pre></font><hr width="650"><a href="http://www.cyber-spy.com/electo-index.html"><font size="3">Go Back To The <a href="http://www.cyber-spy.com/">Cyber-Spy.Com</a><br>Usenet Web Archive Index Of<br>The sci.electronics.design Newsgroup</font></a><br><br></center></td><img src="http://cyber-spy.com/cgi-bin/livecntr.pl?0+1+unetsci" width="1" height="1" alt="The Cyber-Spy Toolkit - powerful internet spy software - live police scanners - usenet fbi secrets archive - newsgroup spy electronics archive - search engine spy tools - download TCST today!"> </tr> </table> </center> <center> <br><center><hr size="3"></center> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" border="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td align="left" valign="top"><small><b><i><a href="http://www.cyber-spy.com/index.html">Cyber-Spy.Com Live Resources</a></i></b></small></td> <td align="right" valign="top"><small> Copyright Alpha Omega Delta,<br> All rights reserved. </small></td> </tr> </table> <center><hr size="3"></center> <br><br> <br><br></center> </body></html>