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From: Mike Harding
Subject: Re: Defeating Breathalyzer Ignition Interlocks
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 14:47:04 +1100
References: <9zoR9.6018$Sa3.firstname.lastname@example.org> <3E161FF0.email@example.com> <0ryocPAJxpF+EwdE@jmwa.demon.co.uk> <%cLR9.4245$Hs3.firstname.lastname@example.org> <email@example.com> <2nUo$aBfmFG+Ewkc@jmwa.demon.co.uk> <firstname.lastname@example.org> <email@example.com>
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 03:42:10 +0000 (UTC)
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On Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:30:20 +0100, "Bill Sloman"
>"Mike Harding" wrote in message
>> On 6 Jan 2003 04:28:10 -0800, firstname.lastname@example.org (Bill Sloman)
>> >The aim is simply to change people's behaviour
>> Can't agree Bill. Here in Victoria (Australia) the real aim is
>> very much about making money for the state - I don't have
>> the figures to hand but the state income from speeding fines
>> is _huge_!
>Then it is a tax on stupidity, which I applaud. As far as I can see the
>vigourous enforcement of anti-speeding laws in Victoria really has changed
>peoples behaviour. During our last visit to Victoria we drove up to
>Harcourt to visit some old friends and my wife's cousin who is married to a
>wine-maker of genius. It was very noticeable that the bulk of the traffic
>was driving at or slightly below the legal limit - in marked contrast to the
>country traffic that I remember from the 1960's.
Your premise depends upon whether one considers strict
adherence to the speed limits is a significant contribution
towards minimising traffic accidents. I don't.
>> They target speed because it's easy. "It's mainly down to speed"
>> they say. What it really means is they don't have to tackle
>> the much more difficult causes of accidents.
>Okay - come up with a practicable alternative suggestion.
No problem Bill. Training! Teach people (especially
Australians) to fucking well drive properly (excuse my
language). The skill level of the average road user
in this country is appalling. People are not taught to
drive here - they are taught to pass the driving test -
and that is laughably easy. Driving is a skill and you
can't legislate people to do it better, any more than you
can legislate them to be better tennis players - but you
can teach them. Where are the skid pans for people to
practice skid control - you won't find a publicly
accessible one in Victoria (Australia?). You're
apparently supposed to learn on a wet road whilst
heading towards a stopped 40 tonner.
>> >One of the downsides of living in a democracy is that from time to
>> >time you have to subordinate your judgement to that of the population
>> >as a whole.
>> Nice theory. But no one has ever asked them, have they?
>Every election. If enough people were genuinely upset it would be an
Rubbish. People get pretty upset about lots of things
but usually "The Economy", "Social Welfare", "Defence"
etc are pushed to the forefront by the news machine.
>> And it very much depends upon your definition of a democracy
>> I don't accept that a two party system with partisan MPs
>> constitutes a democracy.
>Then what does?
Oz would be a prime candidate for public referenda on
issues of significance (perhaps if you raised 5000
signatures to initiate a poll?) by electronic voting. Small
population, good communications structure. But that
would take far too much power away from our three
levels of government and it's associated bureaucracy.
>All these systems can be referred to as democracies and are often are
>referred to as such.. You may wish to redefine the word to mean exactly what
>you'd like it to mean, but that leaves you speaking your own unique variety
>of English, with very little chance that your listeners will interpret your
>utterances (if they can be bothered listening to them) in the way you
Don't be silly. A choice between two parties is not
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