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/iframe></center><br><br> <br><br> </center> </td></tr> </table> <center> <table> <tr> <td width="600"> <center><hr width="400"><font size="2"><b>The <a href="http://www.cyber-spy.com/">Cyber-Spy.Com</a> Usenet Archive Feeds Directly<br>From The Open And Publicly Available Newsgroup<br>Sci.Electronics.Design<br><br>This Group And Thousands Of Others Are Available<br>On Most IS NNTP News Servers On Port 119.<br><br><a href="http://www.cyber-spy.com/">Cyber-Spy.Com</a> Is NOT Responsible For Any Topic,<br>Opinions Or Content Posted To This Or Any Other<br>Newsgroup. This Web Archive Of The Newsgroup And<br>Posts Are For Informational Purposes Only.<br><br></b></font><hr width="400"></center> <center><font size="2"><pre><b> From: Mike Harding <mike_harding1@hotmail.com> Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design Subject: Re: Defeating Breathalyzer Ignition Interlocks Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 14:47:04 +1100 Organization: None Message-ID: <rfhk1vo2qrd79j3vhbvm8jpm5fr25ts8eb@4ax.com> References: <9zoR9.6018$Sa3.240054@twister.tampabay.rr.com> <3E161FF0.1080508@goofball.net> <0ryocPAJxpF+EwdE@jmwa.demon.co.uk> <%cLR9.4245$Hs3.501991@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca> <3e1783e3$0$27997$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <Xns92F9D7284235Fjyanikkuanet@204.117.192.21> <av9h3h$4q0$1@reader10.wxs.nl> <2nUo$aBfmFG+Ewkc@jmwa.demon.co.uk> <7c584d27.0301060428.729ee2d5@posting.google.com> <7trj1vcd67t82va4mdc7tuuk4elsb4et55@4ax.com> <avd3j4$3tl$1@reader11.wxs.nl> Reply-To: mike_harding1@hotmail.com NNTP-Posting-Host: p180-tnt1.mel.ihug.com.au Mime-Version: 1.0 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 03:42:10 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.92/32.572 X-No-Archive: yes On Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:30:20 +0100, "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote: >"Mike Harding" <mike_harding1@hotmail.com> wrote in message >news:7trj1vcd67t82va4mdc7tuuk4elsb4et55@4ax.com... >> On 6 Jan 2003 04:28:10 -0800, bill.sloman@ieee.org (Bill Sloman) >> wrote: >> >The aim is simply to change people's behaviour >> >> Can't agree Bill. Here in Victoria (Australia) the real aim is >> very much about making money for the state - I don't have >> the figures to hand but the state income from speeding fines >> is _huge_! > >Then it is a tax on stupidity, which I applaud. As far as I can see the >vigourous enforcement of anti-speeding laws in Victoria really has changed >peoples behaviour. During our last visit to Victoria we drove up to >Harcourt to visit some old friends and my wife's cousin who is married to a >wine-maker of genius. It was very noticeable that the bulk of the traffic >was driving at or slightly below the legal limit - in marked contrast to the >country traffic that I remember from the 1960's. Your premise depends upon whether one considers strict adherence to the speed limits is a significant contribution towards minimising traffic accidents. I don't. >> They target speed because it's easy. "It's mainly down to speed" >> they say. What it really means is they don't have to tackle >> the much more difficult causes of accidents. > >Okay - come up with a practicable alternative suggestion. No problem Bill. Training! Teach people (especially Australians) to fucking well drive properly (excuse my language). The skill level of the average road user in this country is appalling. People are not taught to drive here - they are taught to pass the driving test - and that is laughably easy. Driving is a skill and you can't legislate people to do it better, any more than you can legislate them to be better tennis players - but you can teach them. Where are the skid pans for people to practice skid control - you won't find a publicly accessible one in Victoria (Australia?). You're apparently supposed to learn on a wet road whilst heading towards a stopped 40 tonner. >> >One of the downsides of living in a democracy is that from time to >> >time you have to subordinate your judgement to that of the population >> >as a whole. >> >> Nice theory. But no one has ever asked them, have they? > >Every election. If enough people were genuinely upset it would be an >election issue. Rubbish. People get pretty upset about lots of things but usually "The Economy", "Social Welfare", "Defence" etc are pushed to the forefront by the news machine. >> And it very much depends upon your definition of a democracy >> I don't accept that a two party system with partisan MPs >> constitutes a democracy. > >Then what does? Oz would be a prime candidate for public referenda on issues of significance (perhaps if you raised 5000 signatures to initiate a poll?) by electronic voting. Small population, good communications structure. But that would take far too much power away from our three levels of government and it's associated bureaucracy. >All these systems can be referred to as democracies and are often are >referred to as such.. You may wish to redefine the word to mean exactly what >you'd like it to mean, but that leaves you speaking your own unique variety >of English, with very little chance that your listeners will interpret your >utterances (if they can be bothered listening to them) in the way you >intended. Don't be silly. A choice between two parties is not a democracy. Mike </b></pre></font><hr width="650"><a href="http://www.cyber-spy.com/electo-index.html"><font size="3">Go Back To The <a href="http://www.cyber-spy.com/">Cyber-Spy.Com</a><br>Usenet Web Archive Index Of<br>The sci.electronics.design Newsgroup</font></a><br><br></center></td><img src="http://cyber-spy.com/cgi-bin/livecntr.pl?0+1+unetsci" width="1" height="1" alt="The Cyber-Spy Toolkit - powerful internet spy software - live police scanners - usenet fbi secrets archive - newsgroup spy electronics archive - search engine spy tools - download TCST today!"> </tr> </table> </center> <center> <br><center><hr size="3"></center> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" border="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td align="left" valign="top"><small><b><i><a href="http://www.cyber-spy.com/index.html">Cyber-Spy.Com Live Resources</a></i></b></small></td> <td align="right" valign="top"><small> Copyright Alpha Omega Delta,<br> All rights reserved. </small></td> </tr> </table> <center><hr size="3"></center> <br><br> <br><br></center> </body></html>