From: Spehro Pefhany
Subject: Re: Absolute Minimum Development System for PIC12C5XX
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Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 17:21:07 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 12:21:07 EST
On Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:12:38 GMT, the renowned Fred Bloggs
(sorry if this appears twice, the NNTP server seems to be acting
up, well it won't appear twice with *these* lines here)
>What would be the absolute minimum development system for the PIC12C5XX
>line to include:
I suggest you go with a flash variant and with a 14-bit core unless
you have a very good reason. Eg. PIC12Fxx if you want 8 pins.
>1) macro-assembler - a freeware MASM
>2) integrated debug environment:
> 2.1) programmable breakpoints
> 2.2) single-step
> 2.3) register/memory/IO-state inspection
Download MPLAB from microchip.com. Free. There are two versions,
I think you have to use the older version for that chip 5.70.40, IIRC.
It doesn't support long filenames, and simulation is slow (get
speed.exe from somewhere else to speed it up) but it's pretty stable.
You can use Ultraedit or other editor with it if you really hate
the built-in editor or have great love of syntax highlighting.
It meets all your bullet points.
>3) PC-based programmer USB/Serial/Parallel port either/or-everything
>ready to go- no kits-
Picstart+ from Microchip. It's NOT a production programmer, you can
not count on it reliably programming stuff you will ship, but for
development it's more than okay. But, if you complain to Microchip
about it, they'll tell you to buy a PROM MATE, which costs $$$ and
requires module$ for different chips. Either is available from Digikey
overnight or maybe even faster if you want to pay for it. The
PICstart+ will program anything they make that fits in the socket.
You might want to order a spare $15-20 JW chip for the PS+ when you
have a chance as they update the firmware now and then.
>4) Windows 98/ME/2000 compatible
See above on long file names.
>Microchip-approved all the way- no aftermarket second guesses- fast off
>the shelf delivery and quick set-up- of course low-cost- no ICE or
>high-level language compiler necessary.
In the IDE you get a simulator, not an ICE. This sucks in a few ways-
it runs slow, even with speed.exe, and simulating a 10 second delay
will take you a long time, a one month delay and you might be waiting
'till 2004. There are other things you can't do, but not many of them
apply to that simple a chip.
Using a chip such as the PIC16F870 would allow you to use their
ICD-II USB debugger which uses some resources on the chip to to
debugging over a few pins. You could then port the program to the
chip you would be using. You'll need an EPROM eraser if you don't
have one- the Datarase (sp?) with timer works okay and is not
expensive. You'll need a few chips in the ceramic erasable JW
package, and probably a few OTP ones.
If you stick with the 12C5xx, you'll be doing simulation, EPROM
erasure (minutes), programming (seconds), crash-and-burn. Fine for a
hobbyist, but a little expensive for a professional. IMO, either shell
out for an ICE2000 (ICE4000 coming RSN) or use a more expensive chip
after doing your feasibilty study. At least buy a bunch of 12C509As
so you are not waiting for the eraser
P.S. 1) Do *not* protect the code memory on the JW chips- they've
covered the protection fuse with metalization for security
reasons (to prevent decapsulation and spot UV erasure) and
you'll probably not be able to re-use the chip.
2) On the JW chips, read the chip before programming or erasing
and write the calibration number on the bottom of the chip
so it can be restored, if you ever plan to use the internal
oscillator with calibration.
3) Start with a program to output a square wave or flash an
LED, then expand it from there. Most of the frustrating
problems happen between unpacking and getting the
These chips are very simple, no interrupts, so are only capable
of certain tasks. But there's a trade-off, they are also quick to
learn and there are not so many danged SFRs to set up and other
choices to be made. Assembler is usually the correct language
for these things, though C can be useful at times too.
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
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