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From: firstname.lastname@example.org (john jakson)
Subject: Re: VLSI training and prospects?
Date: 10 Jan 2003 23:28:47 -0800
NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Jan 2003 07:28:47 GMT
email@example.com (Phil Tomson) wrote in message news:...
> In article <firstname.lastname@example.org>,
> TI wrote:
> >Hi group,
> >-is a course like the one at www.naics.ca
> >enough to qualify an engineer to find work with vlsi, or masters is needed?
> >-how risky is a ASIC design career anyway ie
> >what is the chance Berkeley's 'chip in a day' Simulink to silicon aproach
> >succeeds completely?
> >(www.mathworks.com/mason/tag/ proxy.html?dataid=1248&fileid=4207)
> Doubt it...
> >- Do you think Asian vlsi engineers are going to be dumped completely or
> >just partly as soon as they become too expensive compared to people in
> >some other underdeveloped country?
> Well, it's happening to US engineers right now. In the global marketplace
> that (for better or worse) now exists if employers can find cheaper
> qaulified labor somewhere else they're going to do it. If a wage
> differential exists and you're on the high-side then it's only a matter of
> time before your job is outsourced. Think about it, manufacturing jobs
> were 'outsourced' (exported) from the US starting in the late 80's and
> into the 90's. Now engineering jobs are being outsourced and with the
> internet it's much easier to move these jobs overseas than it was to move
> manufacturing jobs - we're just talking about moving bits over the
> internet as opposed to moving materials and factories; it's trivial to
> move engineering jobs to another locale.
> Since US engineers would have to be making something close to minimum wage
> in order to compete with their counterparts in India, China or Russia it's
> not likely that engineering will remain a viable profession going forward
> in the US since it's quite difficult to live on minimum wage here - and
> nobody wants to work for minimum wage in a job that takes the kind of
> training that vlsi engineering does.
> This is a catastrophic change for US engineers - most of us don't have a
> fall-back position and it's not likely that we'll be able to migrate to
> places where one can survive on these lower wages since most of these
> countries (like India, China, Russia) make it much harder for us to get a
> work visa than it is for their people coming to work in the US (via H1B
> visas). Until the relative costs of living equalize between the US and some of
> these other countries (and that could take decades) the wage differential
> will be a problem.
> ...but I hope this is an overly pessimistic analysis... who knows, there
> could be unforseen, unaccounted-for market forces, new technologies or
> political changes that keep this scenario from happening.
I would have to agree with this assesment atleast right now.
From where I am sitting, union blue collar jobs that can't be exported
like say painters, plumbers, toll collectors, auto mechanics, seem to
be able to easily make maybe half as much as veteran EEs. The pressure
on EEs though is getting rediculous, more & more education required
for jobs in order to stay only a little further ahead than many
However, the HW & SW jobs that seem to have been exported to India &
China so far seem to be at the bottom end of the skill spectrum and at
the end of the day as long as the US is the leading consumer of
technology, I thinks the better jobs will remain here. And English
language & culture remains a huge barrier to these countries too esp
In the end, most of us do it because we are interested in it, not for
the huge $, if you aren't driven by 1s & 0s or whatever, I'd look
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