Message-ID: <3E283BA0.1D6@sneakemail.com>
From: Mike Monett
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Binary Sampler
References: <3E27C2F7.7855@sneakemail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:21:36 -0500
NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.209.118.71
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:21:02 EST
Organization: Bell Sympatico
John Larkin wrote:
>
> On Fri, 17 Jan 2003 03:46:47 -0500, Mike Monett
> wrote:
>
> >John Larkin wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:42:01 GMT, "Mike" wrote:
> >>
> >> >See "Binary Sampler" post in alt.binaries.schematics.electronic:
> >> >
> >> > news:L_WU9.30149$ym4.3340506@news2.west.cox.net
> >> >
> >> >Compare to Mike Monett's Binary Sampler:
> >> >
> >> > http://www3.sympatico.ca/add.automation/sampler/theory.htm
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Mike uses a second order filter, but otherwise they look identical.
> >> >
> >> >-- Mike --
> >> >
> >>
> >> For the record, it's not "Mike's Sampler"...
> >>
> >> http://groups.google.com/groups?q=larkin+monett+sampler+group:sci.electronics.design&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=i%2B93OC9AIycNPQZVX%2Bc%2BEj2d63HA%404ax.com&rn
> >>
> >> John
> >
> > John, I gave you full credit for your suggestion on the original
> > upload. Here is the statement:
> >
> > "Thanks to John Larkin for mentioning the concept of using a
> > resistive summing junction at the 'D' input of a flip-flop."
> >
> > However, your description specifically stated to reset the flip flop
> > at the end of each measurement. This would prohibit a feedback loop
> > from operating, and would limit the operation to manual changes. As
> > you stated, it would take many samples, which meant the concept was
> > useless as a sampler.
> >
> > Once I solved that problem, I analyzed the operation and discovered
> > the loop could not overshoot, as in conventional samplers. This is a
> > significant advantage, since it gives greater accuracy. You claim it
> > is only an implementation problem, but every sampler has it.
> >
> > Then I discovered and analyzed the noise-rejection property. Despite
> > your claims to the contrary, this is also a significant advantage
> > and works well.
> >
> > Yes, I do claim credit for these discoveries, and for the
> > arrangements shown on my web page.
> >
> > It is too bad that you had to mislead everyone by claiming you saw
> > the same idea implemented as a D-flop in an old National
> > Semiconductor app note. Here is your retraction:
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Messages 1-10 from thread
> > Message 1 in thread
> > From: John Larkin (jjlarkin@highlandSnipSniptechnology.com)
> > Subject: Apology
> >
> > View this article only Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
> > Date: 2000/03/28
> >
> > Please allow me to apologize to the group for ever telling Mike
> > Monett about the d-flop sampler circuit. I have created a monster
> > which has wasted a huge amount of bandwidth and, much worse, has
> > diminished the quality of discourse on this newsgroup.
> >
> > Again, I'm sorry.
> >
> > John
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&frame=right&th=a1e872d4db5e2075&seekm=TFpE4.130371%24bm.459948%40news1.alsv1.occa.home.com
> >
> >Also, for the record, I coined the term 'binary sampler' after an
> >extensive web search to distinguish it from other samplers, and this term
> >should be used for the concepts described on my web site.
> >
> >So when you refer to the one you built in 1969, you should use the term
> >'slideback sampler', which is the term you used originally.
> >
> >Mike
>
> I'll call it whatever I want to; I choose to call it a 'slideback
> sampler' to give credit to the people who published it before I saw
> it: the GE book, the National appnote, and PC Instruments, who
> commercialized it.
>
> And I'm *still* sorry I told you about it.
>
> John
Yes, of course you are. You missed one of the most significant ideas that
crossed your path.
I will watch for your posts, and remind you of the difference between the
slideback and the binary sampler.
Mike