From: Vince Brannigan
Subject: Re: [NEWS]: Probe: U.S. Knew of Jet Terror Plots
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 13:57:25 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 09:57:25 EDT
"Fred J. McCall" wrote:
> Vince Brannigan wrote:
> :"Fred J. McCall" wrote:
> :> Vince Brannigan wrote:
> :> :it is a difficult concept to grasp , but no, crimes in the legal sense do
> :> :not exist until someone is convicted. for example
> :> No, it is not a difficult concept to grasp at all. What you appear to
> :> consistently miss is that this is not a court and we're not existing
> :> 'in the legal sense'.
> :> This is the real world. Deal with it.
> :This is why I used Bolts versionof Moes words
> :"the world construes in accordance with its Wits and the Court constures in
> :accordance with the law"
> And this would seem to define the difference between us. I have
> "Wits" and words have meanings. You have nothing until a court tells
> you what to think and meanings flow like water to be whatever you may
> choose at any given time.
I think you have fairly displayed for all the world what you have and don't
> :If you make a legal claim, Ill call you on it.
> I made a claim of fact. You insist it isn't fact unless a court
> validates it for you. This would seem to be YOUR problem.
Guilt is not a "fact" outside of the legal system. Presidential pardons erase
guilt, not facts. ergo guilt is not a fact. .
> :if not, i dont care what you think on the issue.
> Well, on this we can agree. Given how you appear to be thinking (or
> not thinking), I can't imagine caring what you think on the issue (for
> any given issue), either.
I am amazed by your claim that words have meanings that re independent of
context, that guilt is a fact separate from the legal system because you claim
to be some kind of "scientist" Scientific facts, like legal facts exist in a
negotiated set of agreements among practitioners. In a popperian universe
falsification, not verification is the method of advancing science. e.g. a true
scientist does not know whetehr a theory is true, but only can reject what has
been shown to be false. Similary we teach that all data is developed in a
context and may have no reality outside of that context.