From: Vince Brannigan
Subject: Re: [NEWS]: Probe: U.S. Knew of Jet Terror Plots
References: <3D959025.284F175B@verizon.net> <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 19:38:13 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 15:38:13 EDT
Brian Sharrock wrote:
> "Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
> > In other words, Vince, the difference between your position and mine
> > is this. By my lights, breaking the law constitutes a crime, whether
> > you get caught and convicted or not. By your lights, the only crime
> > is getting caught and convicted for something.
> Vince obviously missed my several posts where I stated;-
> Within the juristiction of England and Wales a Coroners
> Court/Jury may render a verdict of 'Unlawful Killing'.
> That is a legal finding that a crime had been committed.
> Such courts are not permitted to cite suspect(s).
> So within England & Wales, a crime is declared without
> any finding of guilt.
> [Apologies for piggy-backing on your thread, Fred]
a coroners inquest is not a criminal trial
8) In that exercise, the facts that only the names of the witnesses
sought was to be excluded, and that it was a coroner's inquest rather
than a criminal trial, meant that the need for anonymity outweighed that
for open justice.
R v Bedfordshire Coroner, ex p Local Sunday Newspapers Ltd
Queen's Bench Division Crown Office List
28 and 29 October 1999
Unlawful killing encompasses murder, unlawful act manslaughter and gross
negligence. To return a verdict of unlawful killing the Coroner or jury
needs to be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that this is how the deceased
came to his death. A coroner cannot find any person guilty of any of these
offences, although in some cases it will be obvious that a particular
person was involved. In other cases, it will be impossible to infer from
the verdict who was responsible for the death and it is not the business of
the court to enquire into this.
If a person has been charged with any of the offences of:-
• murder, manslaughter or infanticide of the deceased, or
• dangerous driving or careless driving under the influence of drink or
drugs - causing the death of the deceased - or
• aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring the suicide of the
the coroner will adjourn the inquest until after the conclusion of the
criminal proceedings, unless the Director of Public Prosecutions informs
him that it is unnecessary. After the conclusion of the criminal
proceedings the coroner may resume the inquest if there is sufficient
cause. If the coroner does not resume the adjourned inquest, he or she
will send a certificate to the registrar of deaths stating the results of
the criminal proceedings. If the coroner does the findings of the inquest
are not permitted to be inconsistent with the outcome of the criminal
The bottom line is that the coroners proceeding is not a criminal trial and
is not part of the crimial law.