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References: Steve wrote:
>> Now the fireman is traffic.
> The fireman is directing the vehicles. Traffic is the flow of
> vehicles. The fireman is controlling the traffic
Don't add to it. You are the only vehicle on a laned two way street. The
firetruck is not blocking the road, but the fireman is in place to direct
traffic. For what ever reason not known to you the fireman directs you to
stop. Stopping in the street is not legal. Can he know make that illegal
act legal. You say the statue says on. I say it says yes.
>> Please. So he is in an intersection, car on
>> fire. He directs you through the red light.
> If the fire is in the intersection itself there are different
> rules.. This is normally covered under separate statutes on the
> "scene of a fire", which gives the fire commander plenary power on
> the scene. .
Different rules. Oh now you think the rules change. No the statue doesn't
say the fireman can only direct you to disregard the red-light if the fire
is in the intersection.
Either he can or he can't. Whether the fire is in the intersection or if its
on the side street and in order to move traffic in another direction he has
to stop traffic with a green light and move traffic with a red light because
the fire truck is blocking the side road. Can he do it. I say yes, the
code puts him charge of that traffic.
> The other lane is blocked so
>> it cant go anyway. Guess you don't go. The fireman is not traffic.
>> And if he is not blocking your lane then I guess there is no
>> conflict. So you could drive on.
> "The fireman is always "directing traffic" you have to act in
> accordance with the traffic.
Lame way of avoiding having to admit you have to follow the FIREMANs
>> This is all for me. I am killing this thread because the simple fact
>> you have an unreal view of the law. At no time in law school or in
>> the practice of law have I ever seen anyone, including a few on the
>> edge jail house lawyers, come up with the unrealistic and insane
>> attempts to twist the law, its purpose and meanings the way you have
>> in this thread. Yes thats just my opinion, as this thread has been
>> yours. I would argue that mine would (and do) hold water in court,
>> and yours would not. Good night
> The laws give specific privileges to marked fire department vehicles
> and give the authority to override traffic signals to police officers
> The legal requirement that fire department vehicles only go through
> red lights while showing lights and sirens is inconsistent with your
> claim that fireman have the authority to order unmarked vehicles
> through red lights without such lights and sirens, especially when
> under the statute such authority is specifically limited to police
> officers. I lecture regularly at the US Fire Academy in Emmitsburg
> Maryland. This issue was the subject of a nationally published
> Column in the journal "Fire Chief" earlier this year. Circulation
> is 47,000. Not one letter or reply suggested that I was incorrect in
> my analysis. I realize that Lawyers can disagree, But when I am
> driving down the road and see a green light I do not expect to
> encounter a unmarked civilian vehicle starting up through that light
> because a fire truck I cannot see is coming up behind them.
No body is ordering someone to run a red-light. The statute calls for you
to clear the intersection. You are responsible to do so safely. And most
intersections are such that you could see the fire truck and thus you have
to yield to it on a green light which in turn allows the driver at the red
light to safely move out of the way.
I read a lot of professional journals because in addition to my private
practice, I teach at the local University, Army Base Police Academy, Police
Department In-service training, work with the State CLE training group, and
consult with the courts, local and Federal on issues of Criminal Insanity,
and Indigent Right to Counsel. That by no stretch of the imagination makes
me an expert in any of those fields.
I routinely find articles I do not agree with and seldom write in. Me and
the Judges do not always see eye to eye either, but your arguments would
never fly in front of any jury I have ever dealt with or even simple
watched, nor with the Judges. Around here we use common sense and give the
law credit for meaning what it says. You twist it into some convoluted word
game that not even the worst appeal court would do to try to justify same
far out holding. Even the non-lawyers, non-law enforcement folks writing in
this thread have pointed out you have lost sight the law in the real world.
> Prof. Vincent M. Brannigan
> Department of Fire Protection Engineering
> University of Maryland, College Park Md.
> Visiting Professor
> Fire Risk Engineering
> Glasgow Caledonian University
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