References: <3D959025.284F175B@verizon.net> <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Subject: Re: [NEWS]: Probe: U.S. Knew of Jet Terror Plots
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 00:48:45 GMT
Organization: MediaCom High Speed Internet
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 00:48:45 GMT
Keith Willshaw wrote:
> "Brian Sharrock" wrote in message
>>> I posted the same thing several days ago BUT it
>>> scarcely disproves the point that a court is the
>>> instrument for declaring that a criminal act occurred.
>> Let's rephrase what Vince said
>> "No Conviction by a criminal court means no crime occurred".
>> or "only a conviction in a criminal court determine,
>> legally, that a crime has been committed".
>> Vince states that only a conviction in a criminal
>> court can declare that a criminal act occurred.
>> All I'm pointing out is that a Coroners Court, in
>> England and Wales, can deliver a verdict of 'unlawful
>> killing'. _Without_ , not even citing suspects, let
>> alone making a conviction. Thus, in England & Wales,
>> a court - part of the legal albeit not criminal, nor
>> ecclestiacal, nor chancery, nor Admiralty, nor family-
>> but still a court can deliver a verdict that a crime has
>> taken place.
> I agree with Vince in so far as it takes a court judgement
> to decide a crime has been committed but disagree if he
> insists that only a trial in a criminal court can decide that.
> However its clear that a criminal court has the final
> word. Say for example that the coroners court declares
> a averdict of unlawful killing, a defendant is arrested and put
> on trial and is acquitted on the grounds of self defense.
> In that case no crime was committed despite the
> finding of the coroners court.
This means the Court made a finding of an individuals legal guilt or lack of
proof thereof. It does not alter the facts. I think the main argument has
been, the old if a tree falls and no one is there does it make a noise. If
no one witnesses the event and no court ever has a hearing or trial does it
change the fact that a crime occurred. Vince maintains no crime. I maintain
a crime occurred for which no conviction was had.