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From: Fred J. McCall
Subject: Re: [NEWS]: Probe: U.S. Knew of Jet Terror Plots
Organization: is for people who don't have real work to do
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 03:42:01 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 20:42:01 PDT
Vince Brannigan wrote:
:"Fred J. McCall" wrote:
:> "Keith Willshaw" wrote:
:> :"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
:> :> But only with regard to CONVICTION. There is no effect on the reality
:> :> of whether they actually committed the crime or not. It is this
:> :> latter claim of yours that I find simply astounding.
:> :Without a trial you haven't even established a crime
:> :was committed
:> You may not have legally established it, but the facts don't change
:> just because you hold the trial.
:> It is this latter position with which I disagree. Facts are facts.
:> The only place reality actually changes when you look at it is at the
:> quantum level.
:guilt is not a fact. it is an analytical conclusion
No, DETERMINATION of guild is an analytical conclusion. Guilt is a
:A crime is not a fact, it is an analytical conclusion.
No, CONVICTION for a crime is an analytical conclusion. The crime
itself is a fact.
:that person A pulled trigger B and a bullet hit person c is a fact, but in
:and of itself tells you nothing as to whether its a crime.
And the other facts that determine whether or not it is a crime do not
change based on what is or is not brought out in court.
:there are an infinite numer of permutaitons that might make it a crime or
Yes, there are, and none of them change from what actually happened no
matter what happens in court.
You want to argue that what happens in court is the 'real' world.
I want to argue that the world is the 'real' world.
Sanity is generally defined at least in part as recognizing the real
world vice artificially constructed realities. One of us does not
appear to be sane, under this definition. That one would appear to be
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to
live in the real world." -- Mary Shafer, NASA Dryden
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