From: Vince Brannigan
Subject: Re: [NEWS]: Probe: U.S. Knew of Jet Terror Plots
References: <3D959025.284F175B@verizon.net> <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 16:29:53 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 12:29:53 EDT
Vince Brannigan wrote:
> > :A jury is asked to determine whether a specific person is guilty of a specific
> > :murder they make both findings simultaneously.
> > But whatever they find does not change THE FACTS.
> But guilt is not a fact. it is a declaration It can be wiped away by a pardon that
> does not change the facts. .
> > Lots of people
> > commit murder and get off.
> no they don't. they kill people and are not convicted. killing a person is homicide.
> > Does the ignorance or incompetence of the
> > court mean that no murder occurred? Of course not. That would be
> > merely silly.
> its the law. the difference between killing as murder, or execution or something
> else is a legal declaration, not a fact.
For those who would like to under stand the difference between facts and guilt
Ex parte Garland (US Sup. Ct) 1866
A pardon reaches both the punishment prescribed for the offence and the guilt of the
offender; and when the pardon is full, it releases the punishment and blots out of
existence the guilt, so that in the eye of the law the offender is as innocent as if he
had never committed the offence. If granted before conviction, it prevents any of the
penalties and disabilities consequent upon conviction from attaching; if granted after
conviction, it removes the penalties and disabilities, and restores him to all his civil
rights; it makes him, as it were, a new man, and gives him a new credit and capacity
Guilt is therefore a simple legal declaration, not a "fact".